do I have muppet written on my forehead?

[mercenary]

Statutory or not they are providing more than most of us get. (I'm really getting sick of buying my own string and nails!)

Good work BAJR ( this is all getting a bit like the consumer pages in the paper, but I like it)

[mercenary]

BAJR Can we have a similar query to the unit that expected excavators to turn up with own mattock and shovel??? (be happy to provide details offline.)

[anon]

quote:Originally posted by kevin wooldridge

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Maybe they should be made to speak to a bunch of ex-field types who can't dig any more because their bodies are knackered.

There must be another side to this coin though. Surely there are some old lags out there who have been digging since the dinosaurs and are still fit (and enthusiatic) enough to continue doing it. Would they care to share their secret?

It must be down to something. Luck? Diet? Yoga? Small blue pills? Celibacy?
[/quote]

good fortune, good health, sensible exercise, sanity, and fun help. but luck (bad), diet/health (bad), yoda, small blue pills, and no fun will not help in the long run.

as for the discussion of all matters relating to the poor aspects of health and safety relating to archaeology on site - yes, it happens, often, and well known. what can be done? my thoughts - first, ensure that a level playing field is provided on which tenders can be proferred, and monitor that. second, ensure that absolutely noone pays lip service to health and safety specified in the those tenders through the referral to an authority outside the whole process (difficult?) who has the legal power to check their previous records. third, ensure that once the tender(s) has/have been allotted that the responsible party/ies is/are monitored on a frequent basis by that authority as the nature of that/those project(s) inevitably change(s) - and thus provide dependable statistics of health and safety industry wide.

who fits the profile of that authority? any ideas? with lasting impact? if only there was such a body as an omnbudsman for archaeology...then it's possible that shabby and disrespectful attitudes to health and safety in archaeology would vanish...what people can get away with in our profession is laughable, and it's good it doesn't happen as often as it could: what's not funny is that they know they could get away with it with relative impunity.

or is it better to hit them where it hurts - their wallet? though that would not help anyone save the pursuer - unless actions are brought against employers in common towards the same end, to keep us all safe and healthy.

think that the unions involved should carry on the good job they're doing of informing and challenging - as much as our employers inform and challenge us - not forgetting those consultants who work to ensure that such results are not wasted.

[BAJR Host]

If you want to provide details to me offline info@bajr.org I would be happy to enquire. I did mention to OA in pasing that such a group existed and they were shocked. so offline and I will follow up.

Another day another WSI?

[the invisible man]

anon, strictly speaking archaeological work comes under the CDM regulations if it is part of a construction project - the building part of it does not have to have started, it can be years away, the "project" is deemed to have started at inception. A Planning Supervisor should be appointed and all contractors have to submit their Risk Assessments and Method Statements to the PA (also all designers). The PA however has no powers of inspection and NOT an H&S inspector. But the curators could (and should) refer to this.

We owe the dead nothing but the truth.

[kevin wooldridge]

quote:Originally posted by the invisible man

anon, strictly speaking archaeological work comes under the CDM regulations if it is part of a construction project - the building part of it does not have to have started, it can be years away, the "project" is deemed to have started at inception.

I remember when the CDM regulations came into force in 1994 that there was a lot of talk about when a 'project' was deemed to have started. Did SCAUM not obtain a legal opinion in 1997 that said that the CDM regulations were [u]not</u> applicable to archaeological evaluation if it started prior to building work? It seems a long time ago, but I am sure something was worked out with the HSE.

[troll]

Like much else in the archy world in the UK, far too much credence is placed upon the semantics of largely outdated law and irrelevent guidelines. Managers and consultants seem to believe that they are immune from most. Not the case I`m afraid.Regardless of the semantics of the CDM regs-most commercial outfits still seem to think that they can make it up as they go along.No control=rampant muppetry.

[1man1desk]

On CDM - my understanding (possibly not perfect) is that the HSE gave an 'enforcement opinion' some years ago which said that they would not seek to enforce CDM on archaeological projects if they were not taking place on an active construction site. As far as I am aware, this applies even if the site will later become an active construction site.

Where CDM does apply, the Main Contractor and Planning Supervisor will rarely (if ever) be part of the archaeological contractor, and they will usually take steps (in their own interest) to ensure that the archaeological contractor applies the same standard of H&S as the other contractors on site. To our shame, this is often not the case unless enforced from outside.

However, I believe that CDM is mainly about notification, co-ordination and management of H&S matters, particularly where there are more than one contractor working together on the same site. The actual H&S precautions themselves should be just as strict where CDM does not apply.

Saying that CDM does not apply to stand-alone archaeological work is therefore no excuse for applying a lower standard of H&S practice.

1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

[the invisible man]

If archaeology has been specifically excluded from the process, then I stand corrected. One lives, one learns. However, it is the case for everything else that CDM kicks off as soom as someone thinks"I fancy building a supermarket there.." - the "construction phase" is but one part of it. One of (if not the) first things an architect HAS to do is notify the client of his obligations under CDM.

It is also true that CDM is largely a paper chase.

We owe the dead nothing but the truth.

[Post-Med Potterer]

I agree that the spirit of the law should be followed as much as possible, however to clarify, the requirements for CDM regulations (as expressed in the HSE's own literature) are

1. CDM applies to all demolition and
structural dismantling work, except where
it is undertaken for a domestic client.

2. CDM applies to most construction projects.
There are a number of situations where
CDM does not apply. These include:
- some small-scale projects which are
exempt from some aspects of CDM;
- construction work for domestic clients,
(although there are always duties on
the designer, and the contractor should
notify HSE where appropriate);
- construction work carried out inside
offices and shops, or similar premises,
that does not interrupt the normal
activities in the premises and is not
separated from those activities;
- the maintenance or removal of
insulation on pipes, boilers or other parts of heating or water systems

'Some small-scale projects' specifically means 'projects that do not last longer than 30 days and do not employ more than 4 people', so some archaeological work will fall outside the scope of the CDM regulations.

This is the HSE index page to many of the publications relating to this issue...
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/conindex.htm

On it you can find the 'Absolutely Essential Toolkit' for the smaller construction contractor...
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg344.pdf

...and various CDM-related guidelines, including 'the Health and Safety plan during the construction phase'...
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cis43.pdf

...and perhaps most importantly for us, EXCAVATIONS!
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cis08.pdf

Hope this information is helpful.