Britarch discussion

[BAJR Host]

Will abide by Pauls request... lets leave him to sort it... I feel he has it under control.

Another day another WSI?

[drpeterwardle]

Why are we having a parallel debate with Britarch. I have just posted.

"I have to say I agree with much that you say. But those of us who have no other source of income other than our labours get pretty miffed when it comes to how badly archaeologists get paid. Archaeology is in many ways different to museums in that it is a profit making private sector activity with a hangover of public service. By definition amateurs do not undertake work that is done by professionals.

I could rant further but I have to do some more work."

We have to accept the very valuable role of volunteers in Museums and at Heritage centres. In my area of the local museums the one run by amateurs is clearly the better than the professional one.

There are two other amateur ones plus a lottery funded heritage archaeology centre which i have never been too. Another new amateur museum is planned and I have offerred to be a trustee. (The bluff worked because I was prepared to be one lots of other people volunteered.)

Not one recieves funding via the council tax. Good. Every penny on the council tax is worth about 100 Tory votes.

Within a few more miles there are a number of international museums and some more amateur ones. I tend to prefer the amateur ones.

The councillors in this area are very well informed about heritage and museums. What they were not well informed about is why, that is why, archaeology is a development control function at county level. They are now. Archaeology became a political issue three years ago and the Tory got elected.

I would suggest therefore that the dynamics of museums is very different to that of archaeology. Paul has indicated some of the complexities of how museums work.

Dr Peter Wardle

The joys of Bajr where spelling really does not matter. Back to printing that report.

[mercenary]

Dr Pete,

We are having a parallel discussion because I'm sure membership BAJR & Britarch is not identical. In fact a superficial look at the subjects covered would suggest a radically different membership.

Plus I can't be arsed with their archaic system so can't contribute to their discussion.

I'm sure that you are right about the differences between museums and archaeological companies; I've yet to be convinced that the solution to low pay culture is different however.

[the invisible man]

IMHO the museum/unit should be removed from BAJR's list and not permitted to advertise for staff on BAJR if they do not comply with the minumum rates required. There cannot be one rule for one and another for others. AFter all, they undertake commercial contracting work for a fee just the same as a "conventional" contractor, although that should make no difference.

We owe the dead nothing but the truth.

[Paul Belford]

To clarify. My unit is not permitted to advertise on BAJR for staff at present. Appearance on the the contractors' list is at the discretion of our host.

I was outlining the difficulties I personally face in trying to increase wages in my organisation. Managers are not always evil and wicked barons trying to crush the working masses. Archaeology units are not always independent organisations but exist within other bodies for a variety of historical reasons. Specific situations require different approaches and are often subject to internal politics and matters non-archaeological.

I have provided as much background information as I can to the situation in my specific position as far as my employer is concerned.

I think many of us here prefer to work with people to resolve problems. I am very grateful for the support of our host and the BAJR community in this matter.

[the invisible man]

Paul, also to clarify, I was not having a go at you in any way, and I apologise if my post read that way. Clearly you are doing your utmost to rectify the situation and you have generously and most commendably explained how your hands are effectively tied.

I am simply saying that "rules is rules" and I would think that it can only help your negotiations if you can demonstrate that your organization is out of kilter with the rest of the industry. It also sends out the right signals to other organizations. Presumably your organization is not an RAO?

I have no doubt that you are not a wicked and evil baron but there is a bottom line that BAJR is teasing, cajoling, wheedling, coaxing and kneading upwards.

We owe the dead nothing but the truth.

[Paul Belford]

Sorry if I came across a bit touchy, but I have been quite open about my situation here.

No we are not an RAO, but I am very keen to get accredited soon, it is in our business plan for this year. I have been in touch with David off-list about de-listing us from BAJR.

[vulpes]

No but you are 'Investors in People'..... [:I]

[BAJR Host]

Once again... to be fair to Paul... he is working V hard to sort it... we should allow some breathing space to do so... which is why I will keep him online.

THough it could be used as leverage if he requests.

I think I will survive the Britarch discussion... B)

though I fear the point is being lost...

Another day another WSI?

[mercenary]

Agreed.

The resistance to change on display is staggering. And I thought archaeologists were apathetic.