Please let something controversial break...

[gumbo]

Or im going to have to do some work tomorrow

[garybrun]

Im sure that can be fixed



Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.

[BAJR Host]

You never know... lets open the bumper BAJR book of controversial subjects and potential libel...

Hmmmm now lets see... which one... which one



"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Tim]

Does that include the faked degrees, nepotism, looting, selling of looted artefacts, fraudelent publications, rape and murder carried out by certain archaeologists!!


"Freedom of ideas is one thing, freedom of the purse is quite another". Edward Harris

[gorilla]

I don't think I like archaeology anymore... is that controversial?

[Sith]

quote:Originally posted by Tim

Does that include the faked degrees, nepotism, looting, selling of looted artefacts, fraudelent publications, rape and murder carried out by certain archaeologists!!

I'm not certain which archaeologist you mean. Have you been talking to U*it Of O*e again?
[:p]


D. Vader
Senior Consultant

Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants

Don't make me destroy you, Curator

[garybrun]

quote:Originally posted by garybrun

quote:Originally posted by Tim

Does that include the faked degrees, nepotism, looting, selling of looted artefacts, fraudelent publications, rape and murder carried out by certain archaeologists!!


"Freedom of ideas is one thing, freedom of the purse is quite another". Edward Harris

It sound a very exciting profession [:o)]
Who said archaeology is dull and boring???



Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.

Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.

[BAJR Host]

Tell you what... as long as you lot are in it... it certainly won't be dull and boring!

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[gumbo]

I didnt do any work today anyway, but thanks for the efforts everyone! Have a anonymous and uncontroversial weekend y'all. G

[gorilla]

Ah… something controversial? I’ve been an avid reader of the BAJR ‘New and Improved Site Hut’ postings for years, but without contributing that much. I’ve seen the arguments and discussions come and go. Likewise, I’ve seen the people come and go (and come back again). Looking at the messages, it is both funny and horrifying at the same time.

I don’t particularly want to get on the bandwagon of ‘archaeologist versus metal detectorist’… its contentious and… yes… tedious. It will go on and on and on, irrespective of how our ‘profession’ (archaeology) and their ‘hobby’ (detecting) evolves. Some people are just stuck in their ways… never the twain will meet. My personal view is that metal detectorists are here to stay… whether responsible, illegal or otherwise. I’d rather have a detectorist who at least contributes to the archaeological record, than have a “I’m in it for the money” treasure hunter. Furthermore, I’d rather have someone who is an amateur, yet enthusiastic archaeologist, than a jaded and professionally blinkered bigot. Quite a few professional here have castigated Gary Brun for his interest (actually it’s a specialism). But at least he is here, and I applaud him for that. In trying to expound the concept (practice) of ‘responsible detecting’ at the very least he is saying “I record” and, furthermore, “I’m really on your side”. At least he is trying to talk to us…. but a lot of the time, I feel it is falling on deaf ears.

Moreover, I applaud him for his enthusiasm for archaeology… something I think we on the whole are losing (or for a few, have already lost). I can’t remember the last time I heard a professional, field archaeologist say, “Wow, look what I’ve found!”. When was the last time anyone here (contractor, curator, consultant… whoever) actually had a sense of wonderment about the archaeology they work with. When was the last time we actually sensed or ‘felt’ something good about archaeology? Should we leave those groovy, positive vibes to the academics, amateurs and ‘hobbyists’ alone? I remember a time when I wasn’t paid that much (well, I’m still not paid that well) and the conditions were crap. Yet there was a sense of togetherness, a somewhat disgruntled yet cohesive ‘band-of- brothers (and sisters)’. I dig, you dig, we dig. Even when I got to the heady heights of project management, there was a sense of “we are ALL in it for the archaeology”. There was a steady influx of enthusiastic people (both young and old) into archaeology, straight from university or otherwise. It was a broad church accepting of virtually all (ok, there were a few mavericks and nutters… hey, they allowed me in!). Archaeology units actually talked to each other… diggers, project officers, managers from differing companies actually communicated with each other (aka a night down the pub). Even at the inception of PPG16 and competitive tendering, there was a sense of competition yet co-operation amongst the throng.

Unfortunately, quite recently, the profession is faltering (personal view). The good ‘ole days are gone. I’ve seen many good, in fact fantastic, archaeologists leave the profession recently (for whatever reason… poor wages, poor conditions, bad employers). Nobody seems to care… the unit attitude that “we can always find new blood” still seems to be prevalent. Errmm… sorry but it’s not. Any self-respecting archaeology student with a £10k debt behind them isn’t going to go into archaeology as a career. They’ll find a proper job… or at least a job which pays enough to live on, get a mortgage and clear the debt (failing that mummy and daddy will always bail them out). Companies now operate in isolation, the diggers don’t drink together anymore (my… sounds like the beginning of a Specials track).

Now, I hear (and sometimes been a part of) it all. The curator versus contractor arguments, the curator versus consultant arguments, the contractor versus consultant arguments, the specialist versus contractor arguments, the specialist versus specialist arguments, the developer versus consultant, curator and contractor arguments and now… and by no means least… the contractor versus contractor arguments. The list goes on (ad nauseum… yawn). Bitching, biting, backstabbing, bleating… lots of ‘B’ words (there are many words from the rest of the alphabet I could / would like to use… but I promised myself I wouldn’t swear).

Here, I’m going to re-iterate something that was said by someone on BAJR many moons ago… but, well whatever… “Archaeology, the only profession that eats it’s own young”. At the time I thought… “damn cheek!” But now… I sort of agree. It would seem the ‘profession’ of archaeology has become, for want of a better analogy, a very small tank containing very small sharks, all feeding on each other (is this a positive product of competitive tendering, I ask?). All this looks rather comical, if not worrying, to neighbouring and allied professions (take for instance IHBC’s viewpoint on the Heritage White Paper). Until we, finally, get round to full-accreditation, we will always seem a bit shamateur. How can we become ‘professional’ when we can’t even agree what we are (definition), what we should be paid and where we are going. To carry on with the shark analogy… we swim around in circles, taking bites out of each others tails and bemoaning the fact that our tank just isn’t big enough (for some reason I’ve got an Escher drawing in my head). All those meetings between the governing bodies (IFA, CBA) and things like the Diggers Forum and, yes, BAJR are great... exceptionally worthy in their ideals. But without actual consensus and agreement, they are not worth the admission fee. I’ve come away from a few of them in the past… thinking, “well, what was the point of all that?” To paraphrase Eli Wallach from the Good, the Bad and the Ugly… “If we are going to shoot, shoot… don’t talk”.

Anyway the point of all this? I hope that one-day archaeology gets itself ‘sorted out’. I just live for the day that archaeologist actually agree on something, they back each other up, they are accepting of others… that we actually have some unity. I’ll be waiting a while I suppose. Even after all these years, I still love archaeology… it’s the actual archaeologists I’m not so sure about (and before you ask… I’m a professional archaeologist)

N.B. the use of the term ‘hobby’ in relation to metal detecting wasn’t meant to be derogatory.