Lots of Work in Australia

[BAJR Host]

Debating involves listening.. and that goes for everyone of course.

Debating also creates a solution, a workable solution...

I note that (in the other post) "..some (but not all of the staff at UWA are racist..." examples sent to me that can verify that (sent to me off list...) I can investigate. and help (well people in BAJR can help) I have for example a prof friend there.... and at least I know that he is not racist.

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Shorty]

Hi Arthus. Have you organised any pressure groups/ demanded meetings with local councillors or members of parliament/ raised petitions/ produced newsletters or protest pamphlets/ approached aboriginal groups to seek their opinions and mobilise their efforts etc? I'm sure you can't be alone in seeing the racism that surrounds you and surely you'll have more success with a group voice? Do you have aboriginal friends that would be willing to support you in your attempts to eradicate the problem?

I'm rather ignorant of Australian politics, but there must be mechanisms in place that can allow you to make a constructive, focused and public criticism of the social injustices you witness. Various North American Indian groups have been in similar positions and have quite successfully reclaimed dignity and pride in their cultures. That's not to say that racism is eradicated, of course, but Native/Aboriginal perceptions of themselves is important also. There is hope... :-)

[Arthus]

Dear Host

"Debating involves listening.. and that goes for everyone of course.

Debating also creates a solution, a workable solution...

I note that (in the other post) "..some (but not all of the staff at UWA are racist..." examples sent to me that can verify that (sent to me off list...) I can investigate. and help (well people in BAJR can help) I have for example a prof friend there.... and at least I know that he is not racist. "

I'm affraid you may be mistaking the polemical nature of my posts as indicative of my whole character (and activities).

In fact, you may have a picture in your head which may not be acurate.

This would be a mistake.

You may also perhaps think I don't work within society to provide solutions.

This would be a mistake too. (see letter I got published today underneath).

You seem to miss the point that 'Revolutionaries produce the best Reforms'

You may note I have clearly stated that none of the Archaeology proffs at UWA are racist, of course they are not SB, JB, and AP are all anti-racists whose work is wonderful and takes the struggle forward.

However, some of the students were racist (I've finished Honours now)and my two Aboriginal fellow students have experience and noted that racism first hand. My tutor JB was surprised to hear what went on when away from the ears of our teachers and I have already said where one ended up job wise but pointed out 'maybe she's changed'.

We also suggested that the arch department make links with the UWA Indigenous dept, it being politics not race that (we suspect) have kept the two appart for some time.

But in other departments there are racists (not many) and how could that not be so when 2 out of 5 Aussie born WA were against the apology.

One element has been the corrupting effect of Post Modernism combined with a certain flirting by some in the anthropology department with Keith Winshuttles revisionist view of Aboriginal history.

Occuring since the old 'left' has retired.

This was mostly some juniour tutors but for two and a half years in my undergrad years using the word 'genocide' (correctly referenced using UN definition) was totally acceptable and then suddenly (on one course) it wasn't.

Anyway a bit to complicated and local to explain.

But surely you realise that a persons class and academic status does not preclude them being a racist.

It is after all usually the territory of middle class 'arm chair socialists and anarchists' people to imagine that all racists are working class skin heads.

Which you couldn't believe since you were a working class skin head anarchist.

Here is WA the vast majority of MPs from both Liberal and Labor go and have always been to UWA.

In fact, its a family thing and the student guild is made up of future Liberal and Labor politicians not to mention all the lawyers Judges etc, etc.

So the students I argue with in the bar and union meetings often have a pedigree going back to about 1840.

In fact, one of my friends (a friend totally hostile to the apology ie a racist friend)has an ancestor who was high up in 1830.

Its all about ancestors really....

(Of course not all, but ancestors whether black or white are very influencial here.

So many the judges and magistrates who gaoled Aboriginal people in 1968 for walking across the city were educated at UWA.

Fathers and mothers of recent students...

This can help account in a two way dialetical manner as to why in every measure of racist attitude WA comes worse than anywhere but (joint) Queensland in Australia.

I think WA voted NO in the referendum of 1968.

So as yesterday in Australia the highest number of liberal MPs (one third of all those from WA)boycoted the Apology.

And many of them went to UWA.

The level of institutionalised racism in each society varies according to certain features of that society.

Clearly being aware of this is a first step to contering it.

But in Australia before we concentrate on the many nice stories we have a lot of nasty ones to explore.

In a society where these stories are not know we need to tell them.

That is plus polulising the knowledge of wonderful precontact Aboriginal (editted here 15/02/08 * I mistakenly used a small A before) Australia.

Surely I've said this.

It begins in schools in renaming building etc...

Often called PC but when you have none PC is a revolutionary step forward.

You really need to look up the work of my fellow Australia Ghassan Hage.

(I wonder of of Aussie sociologist will come onto this site questioning his right to argue because of his ethnic origins? Or maybe they are more politically aware than SOME (capitals indicates strong emphasise and heaven forbid playful Post Modernist Irony) Australian archaeologists who had a knee JERK reaction sometimes on this and other sites....

Read about his work.

Such as:-

Polemic Publication: Ghassan Hage's 'White Nation'He is more interested in what forms multiculturalism takes in Australia, ... By Ghassan Hage. Annandale, NSW: Pluto, 1998. ISBN: 1-86403-056-9

http://reviews.media-culture.org.au/words/white.html

and other works by Australian anthropologists, sociologist and archaeologists

and I think I have already made the point that I believe that political activism through the pen does not just involve

"Debating also creates a solution, a workable solution"

because first I believe a wee bit of shock tactics work well to stire up.

And to be honest I argue for the people laughing quietly who gain a few extra arguments to use against their racist friends (don't we all have them? Or family members or can we all remember our own attitudes?)

I argue in a pub against an idiotic racist for the people on the edge the listeners...

So shock, producing anger ....

then offer the solutions

Works for me.

But surely you don't think this is all I do?

God help me if this was the case!

And Host, perhaps you need to return to you anarchist roots.

Shorty. I'm a community psychiatric nurse and fight racism in a pragmatic manner that is helping the down trodden and many Aboriginal people find a roof etc.

Two years ago the Labor government cut the only qualified Aboriginal health worker in Perths funding, so now (us none-Indigenous of many ethnic origins) we now have to liase with the unqualified workers.

But it leaves me knackered.

But at least we can do our best.

I'm no spring chicken but I go to demo's and meetings and do my best to help when I can and attend sorry day stuff, refugee demo's etc.

However, outside the hights of yesterday it like the UK in that I'm not about to get involved with any Marxist organisation etc but prefer those things to do with Aboriginal matters run by Aboriginal people.

I am known though (is that a suprise to anyone?). Was a leading members a few years ago in NSW in the fight against Pauline, etc, etc, etc

Anyway below is a letter I got published in the 'West Australian' today,

Perhaps it may indicate their is more to life than venting ones splean (when you think about this phrase its strange!! make me think of sperm whales) on archaeological web sites.

Mind you if you check out the Aus-arch site you can see where outrage at my comments has changed to support.

But then yesterday was truely life changing.

And at a risk of a very un-British or God forbid ub-Australian biggheadedness, I do believe I have provoked people to think....

Anyway here is the letter (you can find it online) I got published:-

-----------------
To build on the Federal Governments apology to the Stolen Generation I believe that the WA Government and Perth City Council needs to be honest about the past and take action to educate all about West Australia’s wonderful Indigenous history; which would have the result of providing Indigenous youth with heroic role models to look up to.

In Perth and WA, I can find little celebration of West Australia’s 60,000 years of Aboriginal history, the remarkable achievements of recent and contemporary Aboriginal people and an honest and visible portrayal of the many horrors of colonisation.

How many people realise that WA has the oldest human occupation sites in Australia and some of the oldest securely dated art in the world?

Do school children and tourists learn that Rottnest Island was a terrible prison camp where 2000 Indigenous men died of influenza and 12 were executed in what is now the luxury hotel where the rich now sleep in the former condemned cells? In addition, who know that the entire Aboriginal population of Cue were interned in a police camp during World War II?

Moreover, where are the respectful memorials to these atrocities and why no memorial in Kings Park to the Indigenous service men who fought in all of Australia’s wars?

In fact, Perth is now crammed with plaques and statues celebrating white people.

So come on WA politicians commission Aboriginal artists (and the best in Australia live in WA) to produce statues of Jimmy Pike, Sally Morgan and the Aboriginal soldiers who died on the Kokoda trail.

Stephen Arthur. (Page 22 'West Australian' 14/02/0:face-thinks:



Arthus

[BAJR Host]

And Host, perhaps you need to return to you anarchist roots..... OUCH... shows you don't know me either :0

It is of course not a fully working class thing.. I don't even think we have that class system any more here in the UK.. anyway... as you talk about racist 'friends' I recently took on a person who wanted to kill all muslims.. I could have ranted at him and used shock tactics.. but where would that get me.. (and god knows my first thoughts were to!) or I could just keep quiet.. not wanting to rock the boat... but I did not and used careful, sensible and reasonable debate.. until, he was the one frothing at the mouth and causing everyone else to see the stupidity of his words. I just have a different approach... not saying yours is wrong... but direct action can take many forms.

Your letter is well written (and I am not being patronising... as I am quite crap!) and to the point. You had to, becasue otherwise it would not have been printed, and people would not read it. It says the same as you say here, and points out susinctly what you believe... You may have two personas indeed.. but the Angry Arthus that I saw here is one of confrontation and shock.. (I actually agree with you... but it can be difficult when I feel shouted at) while the Artus who wrote the letter is one able to create a calm but just as forceful letter. I would be interested if it gets relpies... that would be an insight!

Another interesting piece missing from the puzzle (for me anyway...) is why people do not support an apology, as it seems a leap to say... they don't support an apology ergo they are racist. What is your friends' reason?

Apologies for not understanding the thrust that the Staff in the archaeology dept are not racist... one might ask why they do not concentrate on or create a section of the basic course around aboriginal archaeology OR are persuaded to link up with the indiginous courses?

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Arthus]

Well I think the class thing still operates everywhere, look at all the call centre staff or computer inputters, looks like a large old fashioned factories. And I rather suspect that most of the archaeologists I worked with in the UK, none of whome had the power to hier or fire were members of the working class and certainly lower paid workers than the others who worked on the building sites.

The fact that I can write different types of letters (I have never failed to get a letter published in a Newspaper of my choosing, when I chose) for different situations should suggest that I am totally aware of what I am doing with either written or verbal communication.

I am.

As well of having been a Revolutionary and a Trade Unionist, I have also been a Mental Health Nurse for 27 years.

I choose to piss people off and shout at them at times because I find it actually makes people think more than if they first heard the reasonable argument.

Thats because with quiet stuff they can get away with thinking the letter isn't aimed at them, where as hard stuff hits them in their conscience and in their soul.

I have used the same approach on the Australian arch site and it has produced huge debate and demonstrated that many of the Australian archaeologists who have replied 1. Feel that a non Australian born citizen has less rights to talk about their own country than they (the Aussie born)do 2. It turns out that many of theses archaeologists do not feel that West Australia has a problem with racism.

This has now produced an angry response against them and I have had many off line emails of support.

And I believe my aggressive way of getting things going serves a purpose.

Since, the age of 19 and I'm 46 now I have used this tactic whilst involved in politics, it is something that originates from a working class way of doing things and is very removed from a middle class way of friendly discussion!

But it has its usefulness. Have you seen anything of the debate on Aus-arch?

Actually, now at this time in Australia anyone who doesn't support an apology is a racist.

They used to argue that an apology would mean apologising for their ancestors, now after the event (and the PM making clear it did not mean this) they argue it will open the 'flood gates' to millions of $ compensation.

But even the most far fetched claims of possible money would add up two half a new airforce jet or one days Australian costs during the Gulf War or probably 10 minutes worth of government tax proffits from the minerals taken from Aboriginal lands.

The UWA staff are basically only 3 people (1 new proff just starting)Jane and Alistair doing wonderful courses on Indigenous archaeology. jane having excavated Riwi herself and Alistair contact stuff useful when he teaches the historical stuff (and there is also J D in the dept famous for Devils Lair (after his Dad) contiuing his work down south. But they are spread very thin on the ground.

Until recently there was some kind of blockage between the rest of the Uni and arch, but that has now gone.

For example, suddenly it becomes possible to do joint honors.

And just before I finished my studies me and my Indigenous archaeology student friend suggested to the department that they make closer links with the Indigenous department.

And this went down well with them.

I have decided to not now seek work as an archaeologist in WA, partly this has resulted from my experiences with and the politics of a minority (but too many for my liking)of Australian archaeologists and my horror year at UWA (not the fault of the current staff), but mostly because I now realise that since my motivation is working with and doing something to help living Indigenous people I might as well stay as a community psychiatric nurse and use the archaeology in the future as a form of therapy/community archaeology.

Anyway, I'm convinced the Australian mineral boom will soon end (noone else believes this)and I don't think the loads of jobs will last for very long.

Hopefully, I am drawing this too a close now, although of course, I will respond to the usual "you've only been here five minutes" and the "racism??? what in my society..." if they come again.

All the best,

Steve



Arthus

[BAJR Host]

Thanks for that Arthus.

I read the whole post with interest and a growing sense that although not perfect (what in life is) there is a positive outcome (of sorts) with your descision to act positively with the people who you see as being worth it. Ditching the commercial for the community. Something I haev been coming o terms with here as well.. That community and people are worth it and thats where I want to go to.

Using archaeology as a therapy or a binding activity is a very good use of what is mainly an add on commercial venture, it give archaeology meaning, linking it to the needs of the present. Educating and Theraputic at the same time.

For that BAJR will inded support.. and I may even ask for an article for our new World Archaeology volunteer magazine... if you can get a project going... and again.. any help I can offer --- I will.

A Project that allows 'white' Australians to work with Aboriginal people to break down barriers and show depth to a culture that is often boiled down to a boomarang and a dot painting of a kangaroo with a sunset behind. I would even be willing to put some cash into that (not a lot... but then, as with the BAJR Museum appeal in Georgia - the govt were convinced into then adding more!)

I feel like we have been 8 rounds, however I also feel a positive nature to this ... what do you think?

As a final aside.. my comment about class was based on good ol Tony Benn :face-thinks: He was asked about labours traditional working class roots and with the loss of ehavy industry had they lost the working class voter... he replied that there were more working class than ever now, as he defined it by whether you could lose your job.. and from cleaner to director.. that was now the case.... I know... hair splitter!

Seriously though... if you really want to set up a project - BAJR / myself would be happy to help.




"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[Arthus]

Yes a positive nature I agree.

My eventual aim is to work as a community psychiatric nurse in a remote community.

Everything I do their will be with the aggreement and instruction of the community.

Many people use bushwalking as a kind of therapy within such setings.

My aim would be to slowerly help the community gain the skills to map all the sites in their territory (if they want)using state of the art GPS etc.

The writing up would also be a collective operation and everything decided on by the elders and the community.

There would be no time line for any of this and could go on for ever.

The skills learnt by community members would searve very useful as means as geting future employment.

But I'm going to do this after I have gained more experience and only when I have established links with an Aboriginal community who wants me.

I then have to commit to stay at least five years but probably for as long as I'm still walking.

Obviously this won't be just about psychiatric patients but rather about mental health not just illness.

I'd be interested if others anywhere in the world is using archaeology as therapy?

And please, please anyone is welcome to take this idea and use it themselves.

In an another area of the world I also pushed this idea in Bihar in India (when I was the unpaid consultant to the Bihar Government!! a very strange Walter-Mitty story but true all the same, one of the sites I gave advice on had been last excavated by Wheeler!).

Anyway I have links with the wonderful people in charge of Bihar and there is huge potential for collaboration with them if anyone is interested.

However, Bihar is like Iraq in terms of violence, etc, etc, so these problems plus the Archaeological Survey of India have kept all but the French out.

But archaeologist want to escape from this.

Community archaeology is the only way to go here to. Ie you can't spend money without helping the poor learn and prosper.

Vaishalii was part of the Lichivis Republic with greater democracy than Athens, before Athens, Jains, Buhda etc,etc.

Good historical records a thousand years after its ruin.

It is a massive low tel with pottery and bricks etc clearly visible on the surface.

It is covered by (perhaps?) as much as 20m's of soft Gange's silt.

Geophysics is used in India in mining but has never been used in archaeology.

My advert for collaboration may still on be on the WAC site but if not anyone can contact me and I'll give them the run down and give them the emails.

Imagine community training in geophysics and the amazing possibilities....

Arthus

[Dirty Dave Lincoln]

I must admit to knowing next to nothing about Aboriginal culture; but correct me if i am wrong,a culture that goes back 60.000 plus years is second to none with such an ancient heritage. It begs the question:how did they cross in the first place,surely they had knowledge of boats or rafts and how old is that idea in human history?
Its a shame that racism is a potential issue when digging down under,but racism is one of those primitive ideologies that seems so hard to eradicate in the modern world! I would say that education is the answer but some of the biggest racists in the world are not your traditional uneducated people!
Dirty Dave, race-Human (sub-tribe Lincolnshire Yellow Belly)

[Arthus]

The earliest (totally reliable) dated desposits are 40,000 year from Riwi and Carpenters Gap (pierce off painted cave wall fallen into datable deposite)in WA but since the coast was over 300 km further out at that time it is hypothesised that they came earlier, 50 - 60,000 years ago but that the sites are now underwater.

That people kept coming is seen by the Dingo which only arrived about 5000 years ago and (I with others think)evolved from the Indian Wolf (others think dog from Thailand), it is suspected that many people came via India but maybe some came direct from Africa or down from China via Island hoping.

The Aboriginal people Dreaming religion claims they were there forever but all the Aboriginal people I have talked to have considered 60,000 years as a good enough 'forever'.

The Dreaming is incredibly interesting and complex, good book to read 'White Man Got No Dreaming' by Stanner an Ox/or Cambridge trained philosopher who recognised how amazing the religion/philosophy actually was/is and evolving still.

Not linear time but in the past, future and in the 'here-and-now'.

..... Quite attractive, who believes in linear time when waiting for something horrible to finish....

Everything about present day and ethnographically recorded Aboriginal cultures (very varied with some similarities a bit like saying European culture and including Turkey and Finland)shows that the previous habbit of talking about 'Primitive' cultures was ridiculas.

The earliest sites have art in the form of pierced sea-shells (Riwi) and the earliest art is as old or older than the European stuff (and just as beautiful).

What interests me is the similarities in early art, hand stencils and shapes virtually the same everywhere.

Cup and groove stuff looks Aboriginal...

So the earliest people must have been virtually the same as us in terms of speach and cognitive abilities just like their Upper Palaeolithic cousins.

Because art= symbolic communication = also had to have speech.

And there was always at least 90km of sea to cross, so never could anyone walk here and you need communication to sail the oceans.

I suspect that soon we will realise that vast numbers of people were purposely sailing vast distances very quickly as they left Africa about 50,000 years ago and I recogn soner or later we will find very large sea going boats.

The thing about racism is that its origin are easy to see and only logic or 'free will' can over come it. I think it goes like this:-

Many babies get told they are the "best baby in the World" (some people never really stop believing this)and so our whole being is based on us looking out..... thus our family (even if cruel) is 'normal' and so is 'our' [never trust a person who talks of "our" boys etc] village "our" football team and others in the next village are strange because they arn't "our" for they are the "other".

Ethno-centralism, even hunter-gatherers have this, ethnographically some Aboriginal groups got on with their neighbours and some didn't.

I always imagine two villages in England one basically Anglo-saxon and one Viking. For hundreds of years many people were hardly on speaking terms with the next village but a minority of people would have been interested and not repelled by the differences and attracted by the different unknown memebers of the oposite sex (and actually you don't need to go back any time at all... anyone know the huge difference between Ormskirk and Burscough in Lancashire....

But of course the more we mix with our neighbours the better for humans, any doubt look at pedigree dogs horses or the Royal family!

I think education is part of it but like you say plenty of 'clever' people are racists. That is why I have a varied approach to racists depending on the situation.

That is why I some times consciously wind people up (but only using the truth 'rudely' put) by saying things like 'Perth is a racist hole' a statement that is easily supported (as it can be for parts of Bradford, Paris, Moscow etc, etc)but reveals a huge knee jerk reaction as University educated people rush to say 1. "It isn't" 2. "What right have you a migrant to say such things" and 3. (over and over again) a preachy "you know you will never get anywhere with such crude words and phrases", which I think is the most stupid comment of all since angry aggressive langauge always gets a bite and I've been doing it for about 30 years.

And I'm affraid the NF was not stoped by a nice turn of phrase and candle lit sinalongs!!

But the obvious common origins to us all should be more widely publised especially in West Australia.

I started these two lines of communication because 1. I wanted to point out to badly paid archaeologist in the UK that they could earn good money here (I think this will go in about 2 years since I believe we are already in the Great economic Crash of 2008 * this also not a popular opinion here!).

And 2. I wanted to see if anyone might run with a Time Team type concept here since the vast majority of West Australian do not know anything about Aboriginal culture past or present and there is also plenty of colonial stuff to work with.

I mean I've been to the Castle Museum in 'stroke city' Derry/London Derry and if they can manage to look at controversal different versions of Unionist or Republican history without geting blown up surely some TV producersw could have a go here...

It then turned nasty when Australian archaeologists became annoyed at a British migrant attacking the racism in the State, country and City he lives in and is a citizen of.

This also continued on the Australian discussion site, Aus-arch where one off-line comment asked if it was really true that I lived in Perth when I had hotmail address ending in '.co.uk' as an email address and one online WA archaeologist (supported by another one off line who continues to send me abusive emails) suggested that the cutting off of the head of the Bronze statue of Yagan was probably done by drunks not racists or even Aboriginal people themselves!!! (drunks with chainsaws.... self hating Indigenous people??)and suggested that all the Aboriginal names of places down south suggested good anti-racist policies by the WA government (these names ARE the names of places white farmers learnt them in about 1860!!!).

The frustrating thing is its very difficult to argue with these people because they grew up believing that Perth society is 'normal' and as an example do not consider that a holiday resort built on a site of a former concentration camp without proper recognition would be considered strange in many parts of the world.

I have had a fair amount of support but quite a lot of upset WA archaeologists who always claim to be anti-racist but then spend their whole time suggesting that 'things aint that bad' and 'you language is really rude'...

And these people went to Uni......

Please note (* for anyone getting hot under the collar again). No place is much better or worse than another, the UK is Not better than Australia, I am not proud to be English, British or Australian and I attack racism where ever I am. Since I live in Perth and the problem of racism is obviously worse here than much of Australia I attack the state of affairs here.

Arthus

[Dirty Dave Lincoln]

Australia certainly sounds a fantastic place to dig, but i notice you make no mention about the number of poisonous wildlife (let alone the crocodiles) which i've heard are quite inimical to humans!
Or has David Attenburgh been mis-leading us all these years?
Did i mention,i have a fear of spiders?