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My view is that if your talking about advocacy then thats a job for every member of the profession - the IFA and the CBA make good organisations to collate whats going on and to wave the flag for some of the great projects being done around the UK. They, along with other organisations like EH etc. also can lead by giving guidance and support to set up advocacy projects.
However, if you are talking about the furture of the profession, professional standards and practice (as I think you are) then that is clearly the remit of the IFA.
Sure Bajr can help, anyone can help, professionalism and standards are the result of a discourse between those in the profession, so input is essential. But you have to agree a body to play referee and decide what the result of everyone shouting their view is. That is why so many people grumble about the IFA - a discourse requires compromise and as the saying goes you can't please all of the people all of the time.
So if the IFA (or more accurately the outcome of lots of members input) don't agree with you on some things - well argue better and more persuasively next time - or reassess your arguement.
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Not sure what became of the diggers forum. This seemed like the best bet and was independent/not independent all at the same time.
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Digger Forum is still alive .. I have just set up a basic site for them.. it just needs approval from the IFA.. It is then a Diggers Forum website, NOT a BAJR one.
As to York BAJRs post.. quite right..
Quote:quote:well argue better and more persuasively next time - or reassess your arguement.
and if any persuasive arguements are ignored, or sidelined, or the reaction is defensive? Discourse indeed requires compromise, and it does involve all parties listening to each other. If people feel that their voices are not heard, and come (for example to BAJR for help as a first stop, one has to wonder why. I am a single person, not an organisation, no council, no rules, though for certain aspects, BAJR is trusted... and a platform for views.. (see how anyone can place their views - within reason = real views) IFA and CBA do make good organisations for representation ... its difficult to find out what these representations are.. a good portal is BAJR.. read by the people that these representations affect... but underused by those very organisations. I indeed took down the IFA section, as it was seldom used.
Where is the place where people can voice their views - openly? Where is the place where archaeologists come to discuss? A touchstone for general feeling that can't be ignored... or can it?
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
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A case in point would be APPAG... submissions were made... and years later APPAG are still wondering what happened.?
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
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Quote:quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host
[quote]well argue better and more persuasively next time - or reassess your arguement.
and if any persuasive arguements are ignored, or sidelined, or the reaction is defensive? Discourse indeed requires compromise, and it does involve all parties listening to each other.
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If the arguements are persuasive, can they be ignored or sidelined? Perhaps the problem outlined in the quote above is that most people feel that they don't have an opportunity to express their views to the full membership of (for example) the IFA. Instead they deal with committees and council, which is a more limited pool of people. Many people (including me) think that the work (good and not so good) of the IFA committees could be better explained.
I also think that those people on the committees have only limited time and energy available to give to the IFA and that therefore new ideas can often be sidelined or reacted to less positively than they deserve because they are still in the process of dealing with the other points that have been raised previously, many of which may contradict the new ideas. ('will you just let me get THIS bit right before you ask me the next 15 questions') Of course, the world doesn't stand still but don't forget that these people are volunteers!
I think what makes BAJR popular is that (as you rightly say) anyoone can come and make their point (within the rules) and the people on here will listen, argue and debate (and usually have a laugh too!). It is also true that we can choose to do so anonymously. It's a lot easier to back down/be persuaded that you're wrong and there's a better way if you don't lose face in doing so.
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Thanks for that... I think the thought that BAJR is somehow trying to take over or challange, is more of a reflection on others own fears, than what is either happening or possible. One thing I do note is the time lapse, slow motion responses... surely an elected member has been given a mandate by those that elect them to carry out actions on their behalf.. a mandate that means they stood for certain 'principals' and have been given the trust of the members to act for them, whatever appears... is that not democracy? I did fear that 4 times a year and volunteer time in between was never going to have a lasting effect.. And Old girl puts it exactly right...
The World does not stand still... if soemthing is happening right now, you can't really wait until the next meeting to discuss the potential of setting up a group to look into the longterm actions that can be placed before a working party that will report to the relevant bodies ..........etc There could/should be a process for instant action. If you see a car about to run over a pram, you don't call the police to tell them about it and ask them to send a car - as it might just be too late?
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
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I think that for BAJR to continue to provide its excellent service it must be independant from the IFA,so then people can raise issues informally and get balanced opinions and advice.
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and of course respecting each others very different organisation
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
