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A few hundred quid is pennies in many industries! How many archaeologist get bonuses for bringing a job in well within time and on budget. seems we either put up with the nonsense or get out. Appologies to those who I know are fighting for better wages and working conditions
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Quote:How many archaeologist get bonuses for bringing a job in well within time and on budget.
Not many industries will pay you a bonus for doing that - it's your job. In the IT industry, full-timers wouldn't have expected a bonus for delivering what we were supposed to. Contract staff could sometimes negotiate a bonus deal as part of their package, but they'd need to be pretty high up the tree and have some niche but critical skill that needed to be kept sweet.
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Dinosaur Wrote:...while in the meantime those extra pennies (/few hundred quid) come in very handy :face-kiss:
(although this month it's only come to ?50, ho hum)
Short term gain. long term pain.
I am sad to say that I doubt whether it will change until the disparate come together either through Unions or Diggers Forum.
Nice idea. but always some-one out there willing to do the job...
I would guess it would take about 2 months of withdrawal of labour to affect the worst '
offenders' who have only locked themselves into a self fulfilling cycle of undercut, shave margins and the likes. which has the result in competitors ... yes you guessed it.
Unintentionally this was summed up in an email discussion about Rhino Boxes - how perfect they were for the job, how tough they were, and how useful... apart from one thing. they cost money...... THe end of the conversation was this "We need something like a Rhino Box, but cheaper"
That does indeed sum archaeology up. "We want something like archaeology - but cheaper." At the end of the day, you can buy a WHS trowel or a cheap alternative. you can but a Stanley 8m tape or one that is 1/3 of teh price. You can get an archaeological team in, or get a bloke in a rusty 1.6 Nissan Klappedoot with a copy of the brief and a hard hat. .... You get what you pay for, and as long as archaeology takes the approach that we are the bargain basement apology of a profession then... thats what we get. small glasses of lukewarm tea all round (unless the contractors in the site huts pour some hot water through the windows into our dented tin cups.
Ah well....
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I would say legislation is the problem.
The construction industry always (well usually) does the minimum it has to, including breaking rules if paying the occasional fine is less than doing the work.
They think nothing of spending millions of pounds on things they are forced to.
Archaeology is see as a joke in the higher circles of power that control the industry. It is not valued as its too easy to get away with not doing it. They get no return, except the occasional good press.
If however a government actually bothered to legislate properly, like they do for things like water management, noise, fire safety, building regs, pollution, public consultation etc etc, then archaeology would be valued, costed for and taken seriously.
The pay and conditions problem stems from this, as no one stops the cowboys making a profit from shoddy work (its easy to not find any archaeology) or not paying staff properly (those students are studying archaeology, they can dig it for a fraction of the cost).
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BAJR Wrote:You can get an archaeological team in, or get a bloke in a rusty 1.6 Nissan Klappedoot with a copy of the brief and a hard hat.
In my experience he often dispenses with the brief and sometimes the hard hat to shave a couple of quid off the price.
D. Vader
Senior Consultant
Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants
A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of Tony Robinson.
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Bigpicture Wrote:I'm biting my tongue in view of the AUP. While I will bear the patronising nature of this post, it remains a fact that I generally do c. 50 miles e/w p/d or more and at 40p per mile that works out pretty well for me. Maybe you should purchase a more economical car? While I'm on here, you could also consider affording others a little more respect. We may, of course, disagree but it would stand you in good stead to deal with the issues rather than suppress the individual with petty, inconsequential, putdowns.
what are you talking about? are you from bodgerville
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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Quote:In my experience he often dispenses with the brief and sometimes the hard hat to shave a couple of quid off the price.
Sometimes he/she doesn't even bother showing up!
Is the crap pay in archaeology a pan-european phenomenom or is it just restricted to the Isles? What are pay rates like in Germany?
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Jack Wrote:I would say legislation is the problem.
I'm not sure legalisation is the problem, or that improving it is the answer (although it might help). After all, plenty of things are totally illegal, but people still do them. I would think something more akin to peer pressure and a general cultural shift would have more effect, but they are a lot more difficult to affectively change. So a little bit more collective indignation/refusing to put up with it and a little less 'I'm alright, I got two more beans this week, whoo-hoo', to paraphrase Dino, might be in order.
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CARTOON REALITY Wrote:Sometimes he/she doesn't even bother showing up!
Is the crap pay in archaeology a pan-european phenomenom or is it just restricted to the Isles? What are pay rates like in Germany?
Germany, Norway, Sweden - better than UK.....but higher costs of living in all those countries and higher taxation.....
Bulgaria, Poland - worse than UK but lower cost of living.
With peace and consolation hath dismist, And calm of mind all passion spent...
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Quote:Germany, Norway, Sweden - better than UK.....but higher costs of living in all those countries and higher taxation.....
Bulgaria, Poland - worse than UK but lower cost of living.
So (taking into account standard of living) poor pay seems to be a common theme across Europe . . . Is there any common thread which drops us all into this trap? Is it lack of unionisation? The 'hobby' element?
