Internships

[kevin wooldridge]

quote:Originally posted by drpeterwardle

I have to say I find some of the responses rather blinkered to what the government is trying to do and what employment in archaeology in 2009 is all about. Kevin's notion of 100 internships at £16.5k per year would cost £3 million for example and still not solve the problem.

Whilst my notitonal scheme of 100 interns would cost £3 million for a year, it would only cost £750,000 for 3 months (which is the length of internship the governmnet is contemplating).

These costs would be further reduced by the government grant of £2500 per internee, leaving a total cost for creating 100 training posts for 3 months (at pro rata salary of c £16500 pa) of about £5000 per post. Doesn't seem that excessive to me.....

[drpeterwardle]

Kevin,

The IFA internships are for 12 months and the cost of employing people is approximately twice there salaries or are you advocating no sick pay for internships.

Hence my cost calculation. The internships and 3.5k grants are entirely separate schemes.

Peter

[monty]

In reply to Bob, never did i advocate paying intern salaries of less than BAJR G1 or using interns instead of paid archaeologists ! There is a place within archaeology for internships and these have proved very successful. With regard to hundreds of archaeologists on the dole, well this will certainly thin the ranks as in any other profession and things will turn around in time as they always do. A little optimism needed all round !

[andy.bicket]

Sadly haven't been following this thread from the beginning. I have heard bits and pieces from colleagues that applications for some archaeology departments are down this year...sometimes by quite a large figure.

Evidence from other "Arts degrees" is along the same lines. There are just not enough jobs at the other end that will effectively reimburse the large student debts to attract as many people. When the clearing is announced in the summer it'll be interesting to see how many places in archaeology degrees haven't been filled...I'll have my eyes peeled. No undergrads = large drop in dept funding from drop in fees (some depts get 80% funding from undergrad fees). Then there really will be knock on effects in the skilled workers market in a few years time.

In that case the market may not be being flooded by new graduates in a few years time. If there is an across the board slump in applicatants this year, then in 3-4 years companies may be straining to find enough archaeologists for backed-up excavations. Longer term may be more fruitful for those that can hang on or wish to come back...as Monty says, positive thoughts!

[chiz]

quote:Originally posted by monty

In reply to Bob, never did i advocate paying intern salaries of less than BAJR G1 or using interns instead of paid archaeologists !

I never said you did.

Andy, University applications to study archaeology are indeed down, and according to my sources at least two (including one very large and excellent) departments are in real trouble, and may close.
I try and be positive, but....

[andy.bicket]

Wouldn't be surprised that the depts that did relatively poorly in the latest RAE (results last month) suffer more than others. This is partly due to the new classification system this time. Depts that were 4,5 and 5* in old system are the only ones given a grade in new system which now ranges from 1-4. 1(old 4), 4(old 5*) I believe - any slipping down the rankings may mean an ungraded RAE. This is a major problem for at least one dept that used to be at the top of the game, not even that long ago

I imagine to new applicants, if a dept is "ungraded" that looks pretty bad which may exacerbate things further. It is a shame because if I wanted a good all-round degree, perhaps with good field and other partly taught skills, a dept that concentrates on teaching excellence may be far better than a more research-oriented dept, but they well do less well in an RAE which is a significant part of deciding the funding resources of a dept...phew As far as I know the actual money is announced in March, just in time for the clearing to kick in, in the summer.

I've also heard from one extremely highly RAE rated dept that post-grad applicants Phd and Masters are down about 50% on last year, the truth of this may come out in next few months as the funding for these things hasn't been finally allocated yet.

On that note, if you wish to pursue a post-grad, the deadlines are fast approaching. QM Belfast have just announced a longer deadline by end of the month for a variety of environmental PG's. And Glasgow have other potential opportunities that I've heard, but funding is not yet clear, but apply anyway. If you can secure funding, going back to uni for a year may a stable income plus some training and union priced beverages!

Aw ra best

[drpeterwardle]

Andy Bicket said

"There are just not enough jobs at the other end that will effectively reimburse the large student debts to attract as many people. When the clearing is announced in the summer it'll be interesting to see how many places in archaeology degrees haven't been filled...I'll have my eyes peeled. No undergrads = large drop in dept funding from drop in fees (some depts get 80% funding from undergrad fees). Then there really will be knock on effects in the skilled workers market in a few years time."

I would disagree with this analysis for many years the number of graduates has out stripped the number of jobs by a factor of ten. I cant see that there will ever be a shortage of graduates in archaeology.

Peter

[andy.bicket]

Let's hope so. On that point I was speaking generally about the drop in uptake of Art's degress rather than specifically archaeology, but I hope the economic situation is not deleterious to archaeology in the future.

It will be interesting to see how the unprecedented 'credit crunch' affects the spread of uni applicants into subjects less renowned for stability and paying the bills at the other end though.

We live in interesting times. I took us off it, so back on topic we go

:face-topic: