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28th August 2012, 02:23 PM
Licensing or chartering is only going to apply to the top of the profession. Ireland has licensed directors, and it does not seem to be a utopia below that position. Similarly only a very small number of engineers and surveyors are chartered, for example.
A restriction in the supply of people entering the profession (which IMO is what we really need) is going to be achived by the massive tuition fees/university costs. People are going to be much less willing to work for nothing then. You are welcome to be an archaeologist as far as I am concerned Kel, but I can imagine far fewer people leaving other industries to spend 50K on retraining.
I do know that you don't have to repay before you reach 21K, and the conditions are far better than the ones I took out my loan on. I just think that within a couple of years thay will require repayment to begin on graduation, so no more entry level diggin jobs, much less volunteering will be possible.
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28th August 2012, 05:49 PM
Oxbeast Wrote:Licensing or chartering is only going to apply to the top of the profession. Ireland has licensed directors, and it does not seem to be a utopia below that position. Similarly only a very small number of engineers and surveyors are chartered, for example.
A restriction in the supply of people entering the profession (which IMO is what we really need) is going to be achived by the massive tuition fees/university costs. People are going to be much less willing to work for nothing then. You are welcome to be an archaeologist as far as I am concerned Kel, but I can imagine far fewer people leaving other industries to spend 50K on retraining.
I do know that you don't have to repay before you reach 21K, and the conditions are far better than the ones I took out my loan on. I just think that within a couple of years thay will require repayment to begin on graduation, so no more entry level diggin jobs, much less volunteering will be possible.
licensing/chartering can apply to whatever level is set and the irish model is not the one i would profer.
restricting the supply of people entering can only be dependent on their skills and qualifications - everything else would be to the detriment of the industry
employers are all prepared to pay more if the playing field is levelled - employers wages would also rise afterall
unemployed archaeologists should not be looking to blame the number of graduates or volunteers but the inablility of the profession to reach a working consensus on how better p&c can be reached
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers
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28th August 2012, 07:12 PM
The only way we will get decent pay is when units stop pocketing at least three times the day rate they pay to fieldworkers................................
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29th August 2012, 09:28 AM
monty Wrote:The only way we will get decent pay is when units stop pocketing at least three times the day rate they pay to fieldworkers................................
This kind of comment shows how little some people understand about how projects are costed. The day rate will include a lot more than just your salary! Try thinking as part of a larger group (or team as it's sometimes known) and you might understand. Do you think that when a solicitor charges ?100 per hour they are actually taking that home with them? No, it will also be covering elements of other salaries, overheads, expenses and so on. Presumably you consider everyone else (admin staff, managers, maybe post-ex people, accountants) as not as worthwhile as the 'at the coal-face' diggers who do all the work.
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29th August 2012, 10:26 AM
So there is no profit made by companies on the individual day rate costing of each employee? I find that very hard to believe. They are businesses just like any other. We live in a capitalist system and the essence of that system is to make profit off the labour of the worker....
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29th August 2012, 10:47 AM
Carrickavoy Wrote:So there is no profit made by companies on the individual day rate costing of each employee? I find that very hard to believe. They are businesses just like any other. We live in a capitalist system and the essence of that system is to make profit off the labour of the worker....
Again, not really understanding are we. Obviously there is some profit (that's the idea at least, but given how close every tender must be cut it's hard to believe anyone makes a profit in archaeology), but unless you have shareholders profit means basically sod all apart from perhaps some money to buy more stuff and keep people on when there is a quiet patch. Besides, the sort of profit archaeological companies make is most likely to be so pitiful it would be laughed at by 'proper' companies. Also, the two largest archaeological organisations in the country are charities, so therefore not allowed to make a profit (technically anyway). Anyone who works self-employed should in theory be able to make a profit - who are they exploiting? Making a profit off the labour of the workers? We're not talking about Tesco or McDonalds. If that is actually happening then the skilled workforce of archaeologists out there have only themselves to blame. Oh, and before someone says - 'blah, director's driving around in Bentleys' or similar, that isn't necessarily proof that they are exploiting the workers in order to do it, it's to do with the salary they get paid not profit. Of course, if there is a surplus of profit everyone should really get a share, but I am only aware of one company where this happens.
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29th August 2012, 11:57 AM
To back up RedEarth. There of course has to be a profit. otherwise what is the bleedin point? That said. the idea that some units are pocketing 3 times the diggers salary is er... a misunderstanding of how it works.
I once managed a job ( which ended up at around 480k in cost. ) I project managed a number of staff, specialists and more. I left before post excavation started - I hasten to add.
Everyone got paid above BAJR rates ( of course)
but the company I worked for made a whopping 15k of the job. which went to reinvestment, other projects costs, my salary and financial buffering for upcoming projects. 480k went to 15k/.... went to nuppence
Red Earth says exactly what is happening... it is sad but true. if I could charge out a digger at 3 times the cost and then pocket all that money... whooo I would be driving a gold plated Bentley
:face-approve:
We could have another system where we make a loss at the profit of the worker. um... I don't think I thought that one through
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29th August 2012, 12:55 PM
I hope the company I work for makes a profit. Its them that take all the financial risk keeping the company afloat, and my job secure.
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29th August 2012, 08:30 PM
RedEarth Wrote:This kind of comment shows how little some people understand about how projects are costed. The day rate will include a lot more than just your salary! Try thinking as part of a larger group (or team as it's sometimes known) and you might understand. Do you think that when a solicitor charges ?100 per hour they are actually taking that home with them? No, it will also be covering elements of other salaries, overheads, expenses and so on. Presumably you consider everyone else (admin staff, managers, maybe post-ex people, accountants) as not as worthwhile as the 'at the coal-face' diggers who do all the work.
Average day rate paid to digger ?70...............................average cost to client per digger per day ?300..........and before I get accused of making this up again ..........I saw two recent tenders with this rate plus VAT.and both were won .............says it all
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29th August 2012, 08:36 PM
............................not to mention the 'charitable trust 'who made a million clear profit six years ago................
