Jobs jobs jobs !!

[troll]

Greetings Mister Hosty!
I`m once more in possession of fangled technology so can engage again! Just for clarity sir.....I`m not attempting a stab at Unit Managers or indeed Consultants here however.....the circular(and un-resolved) dialogue about the proactive devaluation of professional archaeologists does need a dose of reality. The fact is that we operate in a profit oriented environment on a competitive basis. The facts stand on their own ie.....professional heritage services are clearly a viable business commodity. So viable in fact, that a significant proportion of the workforce sustain a comfortable standard of living through marketing the endeavours of others. How do we adjust the balance? The rights and wrongs of the way things stand is a fairly pointless discussion simply because the actions required to balance the equation would require nothing short of an industry-wide rebellion. Accepting the concept that currently we have no control over the means of production can be quite liberating and is not really an admission of defeat and acceptance of the status quo. If we understand the enormity of the equation, surely then the way forwards would be to come up with a solution that would see the balancing of scales but still maintaining our viability as a business asset. Therein lies the task ahead. Could it be as simple as everyone overnight going self-employed on a rate set through industry-wide agreement? Could it involve a new Union of front-line service providers? A Co-Operative? An Uber-Collective or even an Uber-Unit? I for one am bored to tears with being paid less than a bin-man for my skills and experience whilst those with less skills and experience don a cheap Tesco suit, make a few phone calls and can suddenly afford a mortgage and actually have a structured career moulded from the sweat of my brow. Are we up against an insurmountable struggle with exploitation and capitalism itself or......are we simply in need of a way of inverting the pyramid?

[Unitof1]

Hello troll nice to see you to see you to see u nice

please is there any chance that you could define what it is that your means of production produces over which you seem to have so little control but your managers have 800% advantage?

[Carrickavoy]

Me sir, me sir. I'm guessing site reports and holes....oh yeah, we don't dig holes. First rule don't dig holes....

[Unitof1]

i am the "authority" on this .....clue

[kevin wooldridge]

Hei Troll....I suspect that the answer is relatively simple, but in its simplicity, at least in the UK, unachievable. Take the Norwegian scenario. All heritage assets over a certain age are automatically protected by law. Developers can apply for a dispensation to the heritage protection law but if granted are normally expected to bear the full cost of evaluation and/or excavation and/or conservation. The costs of archaeology are controlled by contractors being limited as to what services they can charge developers or sponsors. Charges such as wages, expenses, machine hire are allowable (although sponsors are allowed to supply site huts, machinery etc if they believe it works out cheaper than the estimate by the archaeological contractor). Charges such as business related overheads are not. The number of archaeological contractors allowed to discharge archaeological conditions are strictly limited and all contractors are tied to museums or universities. Pay levels for archaeological staff are tied to a national payscale and are directly comparable to equivalantly qualified professionals. Normal entry grade for professional archaeologist is a Masters qualification.

I am not sure that controlling the means of production is a direct analogy in the Norwegian archaeological scenario as the Norwegian heritage law makes it clear that the archaeological resource is a nationally owned asset, irrespective as to who owns the land. I guess the nearest equivalent in UK terms would be to effectively 'nationalise' archaeology.....once you accept that principle, managing archaeology becomes as simple as managing any other state owned asset, the NHS, the Royal Bank of Scotland for example.....

PS I would suggest that a revised UK system also introduces a system of state run archaeological gulags, not for members of the public that offend against the system, but for all those archaeologists who beleve that competition is an effective way of managing a limited social asset. They could all fight over the one loaf of bread thrown over the fence every morning before going off to hoe baked in London Clay for 10 hours a day.....(wouldn't mind betting however that within a few hours someone would have established a consultancy!!)....

[Dinosaur]

A large part of the problem in British archaeology seems to be the sheer number of tiers of archaeologists, all adding on their percentage. On a recent scheme we (a consultancy/fieldwork outfit, we're regularly the consultant on similar jobs) were working to an 'archaeological clerk of works' employed by the main contractor, who was working to an environmental consultancy who, in archaeological terms, were working to an archaeological consultant...errr....might have been a lot simpler, cheaper and the job would have gone a h*** of a lot more smoothly (and the archaeology done a lot better) if maybe only one tier of archaeologists had been involved...and the cost savings could maybe have been passed on by, say, doubling the workforce's wages.... :face-thinks:

[kevin wooldridge]

A large part of the problem in British archaeology seems to be the sheer number of tiers of archaeologists, all adding on their percentage. On a recent scheme we (a consultancy/fieldwork outfit, we're regularly the consultant on similar jobs) were working to an 'archaeological clerk of works' employed by the main contractor, who was working to an environmental consultancy who, in archaeological terms, were working to an archaeological consultant...errr....might have been a lot simpler, cheaper and the job would have gone a h*** of a lot more smoothly (and the archaeology done a lot better) if maybe only one tier of archaeologists had been involved...and the cost savings could maybe have been passed on by, say, doubling the workforce's wages.... :face-thinks:

I don't disagree. I know it could sound as if we are archaeological Malthusians, but limiting the sheer number of archaeologists or folk claiming a share of the archaeological loaf anyway, would improve rations all round.... Someone should write a dissertation on why archaeology and the archaeological profession is the perfect examplar for every form of economic theory or practice!!

Expect now a whole load of BAJRites to query why I might be wishing them out of work.....

[CARTOON REALITY]

PS I would suggest that a revised UK system also introduces a system of state run archaeological gulags, not for members of the public that offend against the system, but for all those archaeologists who beleve that competition is an effective way of managing a limited social asset.

Well said Kevin. -If you find yourself short of inmates I'm sure the Ireland could make up the numbers - although you may have to open a second or third gulag.

[CARTOON REALITY]

But it wouldn't be bread I'd throw over the fence . . .

[P Prentice]

.........require nothing short of an industry-wide rebellion.... Could it be as simple as everyone overnight going self-employed on a rate set through industry-wide agreement? Could it involve a new Union of front-line service providers? A Co-Operative? An Uber-Collective or even an Uber-Unit?

here here. or - you could set up an agency and encourage everybody to join it eh bajr??