I was just wondering if we are all expecting too much change (re pay etc.) too quickly? And if pushing too hard could have adverse affects on the smaller units.
Let me explain:
I know of a small unit which currently pays its full time staff well below BAJR rates. Any temporary staff employed through BAJR are of course paid at the correct rate and therefore the pay gap between site assistants and the project officer running the project is extremely small.
All attempts by various parties to rectify the situation appear to have fallen flat on their face with said units management claiming that the unit can not afford to pay all the staff BAJR rates (though he is paid well above!). The threat that the unit will be struck of the BAJR site prompted the comment that the unit would no longer be tendering for large projects as it could not afford to pay the staff at the required rate.
The outcome therefore seems to be: no change in pay for the full time staff and the unit will no longer be undertaking any large excavations as it can not advertise on BAJR. So the units staff are not only paid poorly but will be living on a diet of watching briefs and small evaluations.[xx(]
My point is, what if it really is the case that smaller units can not afford to up their staffs pay (in this case by around £2000 per person) and if forced to do so will suffer. If they can not tender for the larger projects for fear of not being able to advertise for staff they will further suffer financially.
Result: As the pay gap between site staff and those running the projects decreases, full time staff become more discouraged about their chosen profession and begin to leave so once again the smaller unit suffers.
Don’t misunderstand me, we all deserve to be paid as the professionals we are. I just wonder if we are expecting change at rate that only the larger units can keep up with?

The publication today of the Stern Review into the economic impact of climate change prompts me to ask the forum what (if anything) the archaeological profession is doing to minimise its impact on global warming.

If you are in the office, do you recycle, have energy-saving lightbulbs and so-on? Or if you are in the field do you (or your employers) make an effort to encourage lift-sharing or the use of public transport?

What is the carbon footprint of an archaeological excavation?

Does anyone have anything they'd like to relate about crypt archaeology from their own personal experience, particularly relating to methodology and safety. Writing a paper and I just want to be sure I've thought of everything.

Sorry to cross-post but Problems with the Past doesn't seem to get as many views as BAJR Baiting.

Does anyone have anything they'd like to relate about crypt archaeology from their own personal experience, particularly relating to methodology and safety. Writing a paper and I just want to be sure I've thought of everything.

A debate/discussion has started on the "High profile public campaign" thread about if there should be guide prices for archaeology work. I think this is worth continuing:

The relevant contribution are:

Badger wrote:
It also can be looked at from a developers point of view where it forms an important part of the business process... if you like... why pay twice for geotechnical work, land surveys, architectural surveys, even site contamination (ie archaeology) - recently archaeolgoists located several unknown pit shafts, which would have cost the developer dear...! The construction industry must be made aware of the value (in real cash) and I agree with the concept of creating national guide prices for work... ie An Evaluation in North England, on a site plot that is 100m by 100m and needs 10% trenching will be 1m deep and has a grade of 5 in likelyhood of archaeology being present... will = £ xxxxx

Developers don't like surprises... and archaeologists have to start acting like professionals if they want to be treated as such.


Dr Peter Wardle wrote
I have to say that I think that Badger is talking naive xxxxxxxs and
misses the point. Archaeologists are not qualified to be surveyors or comment on contamination. The waste comes from not ensuring that the different studies are not co-ordinated.

As for guide prices who will set them? Curators? The IFA? BAJR? Consultants? A totally pointless exercise that any consultant worth his salt can do this in his head.

See you in the Conference.

Dr Peter

Stripey Kelly wrote 2 months later

Dr Wardle, why are you so resistant to guide prices? You ask who will set them, why not all of the below? Why can there not be a proper discussion with all elements of field archaeology, from those at the coal face to those in the offices? Where people can sit down and thrash out decent price guidelines. As Badger points out, they do not have to be set in stone, but with a very basic guideline clients and ourselves would be starting, at least, from the same place.

Peter Wardle wrote
As I said seeting guide prices is both naive and pointless.

By now every consultantcy will have rule of thumb costs which is all guide prices ever can be. Some curators say a 5% spend on archaeology is not unreasonable and others say the cost goes up an order of magnitude from assessment to evaluation to excavation.

For geophysics there is an almost uniform cost across the country.

Guide prices for urban sites can never work ie X acres will have an archaeology bill of Y because there are so many variables:

thickness of deposits
date of deposits
type of deposits
the extent they will be disturbed ie what the foundation scheme will be or not
location
logistical difficulties

for example.

Guide prices exist for post X - as a percentage of the field work costs which I find unhelpful.

In the example David quotes he quotes for an evaluation the following variables

Location
Size
Sampling strategy
Depth of deposits
Likelyhood of archaeology being present.

which will costs £XXXXX ie £10000+

Of these 3 of the variables will be unknown when the developer does their costs calculation or even if an evaluation is neccessary. My estimate for a rural site would be under 10k not over it with the standard probability of archaeology being found.

There is also the question of who is taking the risk. So I would suggest that a guide price is more of a guide formula to be applied with specialist knowledge of the likely values of the variables and how much they can vary.

This is called consultancy. So yes I am against the notion that a committee of digger project officer and others should sit down to attempt to generalise what cant be generalised when many of them will have little experience of costing projects.

Peter Wardle

Historic Building wrote

cannot, in any way, see how guide prices are useful. What would be more helpful would be for units to try and be explicit in their quotations for work. A few years ago I was consulting on an evaluation near to an important site in London. The level of trenching was very limited simply open the area of the trench and drop in 50cm or to the top of any archaeology and the construction impact was very limited and could be jacked up above anything. I had in my mind about 7 grand; the majority of the quote settled around that level. At the extremes were 1.5 grand and 30 grand. The 30 grand quote was not even fixed. One quote even included shoring.

What I would suggest would be a standardised format for presenting quotes. This would enable non-archaeologists to establish exactly what they are paying for and would help prevent some of the sharper practices we are all aware of such as obtaining jobs by not mentioning post-excavation works and then claiming 'the county archaeologist is making me do it'. A practice I have encountered far too frequently.

I did hear this morning on the radio through the stella haze that the Today programme is looking for members of the public as guest editors. Possibly it could be worth exploring

Afternoon all.

We are looking to support some important and worthwhile archaeological causes on our site, http://www.getatrowel.co.uk. The sort of things we would like to help are events/campaigns to improve pay, protecting important sites around the world or simply raising the profile of the industry.

So, if anyone knows of such a project coming up, or anybody who might, it would be greatly appreciated if you could help out.

We will create dedicated pages of the site for these campaigns as well as give away our banner space at the top of the site, which is usually for our internal campaigns.

It would be great to get some feedback.

Thanks,

Ian

Tools & Supplies for Archaeology - http://www.getatrowel.co.uk

On a lighter note... whats gripped you in the book department?
Currently (with the sad death of Eric Newby) I am reading A short walk in the Hindu Kush, to be followed with his classic Love and War in the Appenines.
Ah... British bumbling adventure at its best.... my fave line in Short walk...On seeing them up a mountain blowing up air mattresses.. (remember we are around 16000ft up.........)

"You pansies..." then off he walks.. leaving them slack jawed... classic!

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

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After the resignation of Troll as a Moderator, BAJR is looking for a Fieldworking archaeologist to take over... must be a Digger or Supervisor type person...

get in touch - info@bajr.org

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

http://www.prospect.org.uk/survey/archaeologists.htm

The questionnaire is made up of 15 questions

To inform our negotiations with employers, Ministers and professional bodies we would welcome your participation in this brief electronic survey. Anecdotal evidence from members and those of external organisations would suggest the sector is particularly poorly paid commensurate with professional qualifications and experience. However, strength is lent to any negotiations we participate in through realistic and credible figures so your participation is very important.

Please take the 2 minutes to fill out the questionnaire - It is the start of a real effort to have data that can inform and aid the negotiations on pay...YOUR PAY!! If you want the IFA, Prospect and BAJR to help you.... YOU have to help us...





"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu